t is NOT class warfare to suggest that the wealthy should pay a larger share of the costs of the system that allows them to prosper. There were plenty of entrepreneurs during Reagan days when the top earners paid 30% or more, and during the Eisenhower days when some paid 90% or more.
Wow! Did I get comments!
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Dan Bolton
AMEN
Tracy S Lawler
I -think- our average tax rate for everyone here in Italy is around 40% for people who earn over 14,000€ a year. Don't quote me on that but I remember a few years back it being high like that and being aghast...that rate also includes a part for our national health care coverage, too. Everything costs more and people earn less here - it's sad...at least they have YUMMY food!;-)
Brian Barcomb
Mr. Shaw... your arguement is comparing capital gains vs personal ibcome tax. That is apples to oranges and not apples to apples. Exceeding and excelling is the the American spirit... Americans have the value of success instilled in them...some more than others. Are you saying that we should deny individuals the right to excel and to be successful. An example: 2 kids go to school. One studies their behind off day after day for hours. The same child puts in the extra effort with extra credit work. The other child does what they need to in order to "get by". The 1st child gets an "A" and the second child gets a "D". The teachers says it's not fair that the 1st child gets an "A" bc they studied more. So the teacher gives both students a "C". Is that "FAIR"? Would you punish one student to make sure the other student gets a good grade?
Tracy Cordle Baker
I think that it should be the same. If I pay 25% then upperclass should pay 25% at least. The secretary shouldn't pay more than the businessman. I totally agreed when he said I know what people watching are thinking, that we will get nothing done because we won't work together....broken system. I truly believe that Obama would like nothing more than everyone to come together at this point.
Kevin J. Lennon
@ Brian - you're analogy is false. Instead, would it be fair if the student that studied hard is graded on a tougher scale than the one that just glided by? That is the nature of a tax code that rewards some forms of income (termed "capital gains") over other forms of income (termed "wages"). It's that simple.
Brian Barcomb
secretary is taxed at personal income level AS is the "millionaire"... was false statement is that the secretary is taxed more than the "millionaire"..... the millionaire's personal income is taxed AND then he /she is taxed again on their investments....which is of course a lower level. Mr. Buffet fails to mention this w/ his statement that he pays less in taxes than his secretary (who by the way makes around $500k)
Brian Barcomb
Kevin, a person w/ capital gains taxes is being taxed twice.... once at the personal income level and then w/ capital gains....
Tracy Cordle Baker
BOTH sides need to come off of the ropes and meet in the middle and work something out on many issues. If we don't our country is gonna fail from the inside out.
Dawn N Luke Andrews
I believe the Communist Manifesto extols the virtues of a progressive income tax system under which the "haves" pay more % than the "have nots"....I really wish that Americans would not support such things .....fairness would be the same percentage for all...that way if Mitt makes $100 million, he DOES pay more anyway ..come on people ...
Janet Hughes Smith
This poster is not comparing apples to apples. The 13.9% isn't referring to taxes on earned income but on capital gains. His earned income rate would be 35%, but because he has been so successful at investing and managing he has been able to make millions through capital gains. Capital gains rates are the same for all Americans. IF I were able to succeed as Romney, or you if you were, you would pay the same rate on your capital gains as Romney does. So does the teacher shown in the poster! Obama wants to raise the capital gains tax. Please watch the video here and then tell me how and why this makes any sense! Please watch the entire video and listen to the moderator.
Are you sure you want all tax laws to be fair?
Eric Lindberg
I see no reason why capital gains on investments should be treated as anything other than income. It IS income--and it's not being taxed twice. If I have an extra $100 at the end of the year from the money I have earned (and payed income tax on) I can invest that. If it earns $10 next year and I put that money in my pocket, that is income. I earned $10 on my wise investment. Why wouldn't that be taxed along with my other income? The principle has already been taxed, but the interest is new money to me. If I have enought money invested to live off the interest, my "job" can be managing that money--why should that job pay half the tax that a manual labor job pays?
Eric Lindberg
there is no "disincentive to invest" from being taxed on money earned from investment. The tax is a percentage of the gain--it's not like it takes away from the principal.
Brian Barcomb
Taxing more "millionaires" will take $$ out of the economy and send jobs overseas. Taxing "millionaires" more will put more people out of work bc "millionaires" will not invest as much in their businesses. They will seek tax shelters in overseas banking accounts. You guys have to re-think the liberal ideology when it comes to taxation. Redistribution of wealth would cause a further decline of our economic system. Tax cuts and reinvestment are the keys to jump starting our economy. Govt involvement, taxation, and regulations will stifle any hopes we have of digging out of this mess.
Janet Hughes Smith
Personally, I think rather than continue to raise taxes on people who work and save the government should cut spending and waste and end bureaucracy. Eric asks why not tax capital gains as much as income tax? One answer is the reason shown in the video I mentioned earlier. It hurts everyone including the government. More government revenues were raised when the capital gains tax was at 15% than when it was raised to 20+ %. Investors are willing to take risks when they are not burdened with higher and higher taxes. Obama has successfully turned the dialogue away from cutting spending. Reducing spending is no longer being discussed. We are trillions of dollars in debt and the government is bulging at the seams with money going to wasteful projects that are no longer needed and those who mention cutting spending are being dismissed by media and by this administration. The focus is on Romney because he was successful. Rather than saying we have to do something about people like Mitt Romney, why not say, "America, What a country! Look what the son of an immigrant can do" Rather than increase Romney taxes, cut out waste and lower everyone's taxes. Lower taxes for the teacher in the poster. When we bring down the system that enabled Mitt Romney, we will not help the poor, we will simply bring down the rich. Do we want everyone to be equally poor so things will be fair?
Terrell Shaw
Janet, what do you mean "continue to raise taxes"? Taxes have been lowered much more often than raised in the last thirty years. For example President Obama, as promised, lowered income taxes on over 90% of Americans.
Eric Lindberg
Janet, that video isn't very holistic. Is has certainly not been demonstrated that the reduction of the capital gains tax increases revenue--yes, those two things happened in the Clinton years, but not necessarily because of each other. In fact, our best economists say they are not related. Revenue went up because the stock market was soaring, so more total taxes were generated even at a lower tax rate. It is a myth and a fantasy to say that the lower taxes were the cause of the soaring market. Markets have risen when taxes were much higher. We can really want something to be simple, but it's often not.
Janet Hughes Smith
Eric, Obama wants to raise Capital Gains Tax on everyone to be "fair". Why do you want to raise taxes on Americans? Why do you think raising taxes is better than cutting out waste and spending that we cannot afford to fund projects that we do not need and many that are senseless? Why should a government print money in order to spend more when the money is losing value and printing more causes inflation. The printing usually goes hand in hand with raising taxes to attempt to cover the cost? Politicians will not cut programs or spending without being forced by voters.There are expert economist who will tell you that raising taxes doesn't create more revenue. Even Barack Obama has said "You never raise taxes during a recession." Of course he did not mean that because he plans on doing just that. What he says depends upon his audience and what he thinks will gender votes, but here is what John F. Kennedy said: “Our true choice is not between tax reduction, on the one hand, and the avoidance of large federal deficits on the other. It is increasingly clear that...an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits.”
Janet Hughes Smith
Terrell, Are you crediting Obama with lowering taxes when Congress did not allow the Bush tax cuts to expire or do you consider rebates to be an income tax cut? What bill actually lowered the income tax rates? I really did not know that he did that.
Terrell Shaw
The President, like a big majority of Americans, understands that a progressive tax system is the correct way to reconcile liberty with the common welfare. We do not need to return to the age of robber barons. The progressive tax recognizes the debt the wealthy owe to the society that allows them to prosper, while allowing them to continue to innovate and capitalize on their skills, inventiveness, and hard work.
Barack Obama says taxes are lower for middle class today than when he took office
Janet Hughes Smith
The date of the post is Nov. 2011, but it is referring to a document of September 5th, 2011. The tax cut described was actually a 2% reduction in what was taken out and it only temporarily reduced the portion taken out for Social Security by 2 percentage points. It was in force for the duration of 2011 so it has already expired. Obama did ask Congress to reduce Social Security benefits taken out again after it expired, but Congress hasn't cooperated since Social Security is going broke. You are right, we do have a progressive rate tax. Those who earn more pay more. That has been in place since 1935 under FDR who was a progressive. When Obama keeps talking about taxing the rich and how they should pay their "fair share" it is somewhat deceiving because they are already paying a higher rate than the median income people and 46.4% of the adult population do not pay income tax.It is true that many use loopholes. I thought maybe those would be closed at some point, but no president has actually even attempted to close loopholes. I understand that some people think the solution to our problems are taxing those who have money and placing their money into the hands of the feds. I still say that cutting wasteful spending and the size and cost of government makes more sense along with a simpler tax code. The Tax Policy Center seems to be a good site for gaining information. It is supposed to be non-partisan and it seems to be accurate.
TPC Tax Topics | Who Doesn't Pay Federal Taxes?
Dan Bolton
Good Christian people are being so deceived by Romney. It is not only is polices and him flip flopping on them but his personal beliefs as well. I can remember people saying Clinton and Obama was the anti Christ. I am not going to go as far as that to say that about Mitt but people need to scrutinize him as much as they have the President. You know I have never brought something up like someone’s belief but he spooks the heck out of me.
Terrell Shaw
Janet, we have been cutting and cutting and cutting. Surely you've noticed. Our school system has cut to the bone. Our state parks have cut back. Our roads and bridges are crumbling. The wealthy are thriving under ever reduced rates. Trickle down has never worked. The wealthy are paying less than at any time in my life. They managed just fine in the fifties under much higher rates. Can our America fall to the point that we no longer support our public schools, allow our libraries, roads, public transit, harbors, military, parks, etc to decline. All those things are beneficial to all including the weathy whose fortunes are built on the advantages that our whole society provides them. We are not in trouble because of the poor.
It is shocking to me that anyone can consider it just for someone who makes millions off of investments to pay 13.9% when teachers, etc pay 25%. A huge majority of Americans disagree with the GOP on this. By the way, the poor live a very expensive lifestyle, by comparison to you and me, and they DO pay lots of taxes through the sales taxes. Despite that I wish we would charge every citizen at least a token income tax just to remove that flimsy arrow from the right-wing quiver.
Janet Hughes Smith
I am not even suggesting cutting programs that are needed. I am suggesting cutting waste such as $10 million for a remake of “Sesame Street” for Pakistan or $764,825 to study how college students use mobile devices for social networking. These are the things I am referring to. According to Education.gov Education is primarily a State and local responsibility in the United States. It is States and communities, as well as public and private organizations of all kinds, that establish schools and colleges, develop curricula, and determine requirements for enrollment and graduation. The structure of education finance in America reflects this predominant State and local role. Of an estimated $1.13 trillion being spent nationwide on education at all levels for school year 2010-2011, a substantial majority will come from State, local, and private sources. I know schools do get a great deal of federal dollars, but states vary on how much they spend. The same is true of transportation. When the bill that taxes the rich goes through Congress let's hope that the rich politicians in Congress are included rather than the small business owners of America.
Shannon McNeal
Wow! People really do think that jobs are going overseas because of tax rates? Looks like it cheap wages, fast turn around for output because you do not have any protections for the workers on the assembly line. Now, tell me, how is it fair that a person not contribute the same percent of your gain during the year as the working class? The working class has no capital gains to pay the rent, the mortgage and buy food for their children.
Jared Lathem
Did you pitch a fit about Kerry's taxes (which were lower)?
Oh, and Kerry didn't earn his wealth. He married into it.
Shannon McNeal
Pitchin' fits about all the rich folks getting richer and not paying taxes like I do - regardless of their politics. That's me. In all these years I have yet to receive a trickle. Now, I do plainly see that money flows up. Where o' where is that trickle?
Jared Lathem
Shannon, what a trickle look like? I wonder if it looks like a job. I wonder if it looks like a paycheck.
Howard Smith
There is little question that over the past several decades there has been a redistribution of wealth in America but what Brian Barcomb fails to realize is that it has been upwards. It is the increasing CONCENTRATION of wealth that is cause for concern in our society because it is undermining the middle class.
Drew Fountain
Three decades of business tax cuts and tax credits, and what did the business leaders do ?? Hmmm - they outsourced millions of jobs overseas, laid American workers off, then pocketed the profits as their "bonuses". Don't be so naive - suggesting tax reduction will automatically create jobs - it failed during Reaganomics , the Bush years, and it wont work in 2012.
Janet Hughes Smith
The economic boom under Reagan lasted 92 months without a recession, from November 1982 to July 1990, the longest period of sustained growth during peacetime and the second-longest period of sustained growth in U.S. history. The growth in the economy lasted more than twice as long as the average period of expansions since World War II.The American economy grew by about one-third in real inflation-adjusted terms. The economy was better under Bush than it has been under Obama and if Congress had listened when warned (17 times) by Bush that Freddie and Fannie were failing earlier the crisis could perhaps been averted. That business leaders are outsourcing jobs overseas has been largely due to Unions and Obama continues to give money to unions. Obama's job czar, Jeff Immelt, moved jobs out of the country while working on the president's council to keep jobs in the USA. Those who want to tax business owners in America and "the rich" may do so. There's plenty of support in Congress, but this will not fix the economy and it will not make the poor in this country better off. It saddens me to see it happen. I am not rich, but I had hoped my grandchildren would live in an America where they would have the same opportunity for success that my generation had.
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