Gleaning Facebook: Trout Expo 2016

 

Thea's first Trout Expo.

Thank you Trout Unlimited for supporting Arrowhead!

Trout Expo opens at ten. Rome's ECO Center, Ridge Ferry Park
Y'all come!

Gleaning Facebook: Evangelicals?

(Notes on the big Trump wins in SC and NV among "evangelicals")

First this is not meant to be catty or mean-spirited but a real exploration of what-in-the-world-is-going-on.

I feel like I have some understanding of what evangelical Christianity is. Donald Trump won the "evangelical" vote, they say, in both these contests.

Here's my question: Who are these evangelicals that voted for Trump?

Are they self-identified?

If so, are they casually associated with evangelical backgrounds or are they active members of evangelical churches?

I am a member of an evangelical denomination that is very evangelical in Georgia, if less so in some other parts of the country. I have liberal and moderate evangelical friends who support Clinton or Sanders. I have conservative evangelical friends who have supported mainline Republicans like Kasich or Bush or the hard-right Rubio. I have very-hard-right evangelical friends who support Carson or Cruz. I know of no one among regular church-goers who support Trump. They may exist. I don't know them.

Having grown up in an evangelical home, attended evangelical churches my entire life, having graduated from an evangelical college where I attended mandatory chapel three times a week, I cannot imagine someone who believes the tenets of evangelical Christianity finding very much common ground with Donald Trump.

I do not know the man's heart, but it is my job as a citizen to judge his behavior and his words.

My judgment is that: as regards his attitudes toward others, his treatment of women, his lack of self-criticism, his lack of charity, his self-aggrandizement, his disparagement of immigrants, his profane and/or crude language, etc. he is at odds with the evangelical standards of those I know.

Therefore I have to suspect that, however much Donald Trump's "evangelical" voters believe themselves to be "evangelical," "evangelical" may not mean what they think it means.

So you political nerds out there: Is Trump really winning the evangelicals?

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Likes:

Joan Shaw Turrentine
David Matheny

David Marlin Rains

Ivy Elizabeth Holt Morris

Julie Ingram Gatanis

Alex Kozelle

Sam Burnham

Jim Curry

Amy Durham Mendes

Cornelia Gamble

Ken Gossett

Ray Barton

Sandra Caruso

Jessica Rogers

Ken Freshour

Terri Morgan

Tersi Bendiburg

John Lee

David Strickland

Richard Wear

Will Rhinehart

Cristie Smith

Dwain Rutledge

Bryant Steele

Hilda Atkins Moore

Gretchen Dodson

Dan Bevels

Tracy Cordle Baker
I think part of the problem with this is lumping people into one group as voters. I am a Christian. I am a woman. I am a teacher. I am white. I am an American.

Josh Brown
I'd love for you to write a column about this (or Bernie or Hillary) for AllOnGeorgia. You have a lot to say. I'd post it statewide and put it on this site, too. http://allonpolitics.allongeorgia.com/

David Marlin Rains
IMHO, Evangelicals are very well aware & disillusioned with the Repub party. Even though they have worked for & voted Repub they realize their resultant manipulation & lack of promised reward. Trump is the ultimate non-Repub. Likewise RW Evangelicals live in a fearful/victimized world. Those two emotions are really two sides of the same coin. Trump is the alpha male full of braggadocio & aggression; he will protect them from fear & victimization. So a lot of it doesn't have to do with theology.

Terrell Shaw
So you believe that the Trump voters being classified as "evangelical" are actually serious evangelical believers who have made a decision to give Trump a pass on his personal behavior and beliefs in order to have a Big Daddy to protect them from (????) terrorists, gay-marriage, religious discrimination ???? ----- Just strange. Hard to understand or accept.

David Marlin Rains
Trump will DO something about these issues! Make America Great Again! Part 1 is the disillusion with the Repub party. And don't forget smarmy Uriah Heep & Dr Not Right in the Head aren't warming a lot of EV hearts. I just posted on Pat Robertson giving Trump big ups at Liberty U.

David Marlin Rains
Rafael Cruz is part of Benny Hinn's Purifying Fire Ministry; a more sucker-fleecing, tax-dodging, unChristian, jackleg outfit you cannot find.
So at least Ted came by his grifting streak "honestly." 

Josh Brown
We've got tons of Republicans who write columns for us, writers and high profile state representatives alike, and only one Democrat (Dem representative, Debbie Buckner). Need more Democratic voices. The door is open. 

Terrell Shaw
I'll think about it. You might take a look at my out-of-date blog and see what I might redo for your venue.

http://aloneonalimb.blogspot.com/

Josh Brown
Awesome. Will do, sir!

Terrell Shaw
http://aloneonalimb.blogspot.com/.../why-i-am-democrat.html

Josh Brown
Terrell Shaw this is great.

Sam Burnham
Here's the deal, all my life the Republican Party has talked about smaller, more responsible government, small businesses, action in the area of immigration, entitlement reform, addressing the deficit & debt, and less overall federal intrusion in our lives.
But when it comes to action, no matter who is in charge, true conservatives get the middle finger. The only remotely Conservative candidate that has been nominated since I came of voting age was Bob Dole. Bob Freakin Dole. That's it. I'm 40 years old and all I can point to is Bob Dole. That's pitiful.
So people are fed up. Trump is nowhere near a conservative. But he has fed the "make America great again" line that people want to hear. And the electorate has been dumbed down to the point they believe soundbites. So when they hear "hope & change" or "make America great again" they don't need specifics. They just go vote.
So what we see is:
1) folks giving the GOP that middle finger back
2) folks willing to bet this soundbite is true.
3) a desperate need to dust off true conservatism and educate the electorate about what it means.

Ruth Baird Shaw
Charles Terrell "Terry " Shaw...how dare you try to bring a little common sense into the political conversation. <smile> I have been wondering the same thing???

Scott Fuller
Well said, neighbor!

Ruth Baird Shaw
Sam Burnham has explained it well.

Raymond Atkins
I can't find a living soul who will admit to backing Trump. Maybe it's something one does in secret. I do believe, however, that either Hillary or Bernie can beat him handily.

Terrell Shaw
I hope you are right Ray, but I remember cheering for a second-rate actor as an easy opponent in 1980. 

Howard Smith
Yes, I have the same memories as Terrell and what is concerning me the most is the enthusiasm gap. So far, the turnout in GOP caucuses and primaries is record setting. I also have a growing concern he will pick Rubio as his VP which would make this a formidable ticket, at least as of now. I am still hoping Trump will self destruct but it does not appear it will happen within the GOP primary process. What concerns me is what "making America Great Again" means to white male voters....

Robin Holt
I met two yesterday. A couple from South Georgia. Salt of the earth folks. I was shocked to discover they support Trump. Think Kasich should be his running mate. I was so astounded I couldn't argue with them. Sad.

Terrell Shaw
Sigh. I don't doubt their salt, but I'll bet they can't diagram his sentences.

Victoria Stanz Abernathy
Raymond Atkins You haven't been to the infamous liar's table at Southern Flavor in CS. They believe in every word on Fox, and really think Trump is the savior from all progressives(communists-socialists).

Victoria Stanz Abernathy
Wayne Jones Well don't tell 'em.

Raymond Atkins
Howard Smith the fact that some of his Trumpiness has not already caused him to self-destruct is an indication of how low the bar now rests.

Neal Brackett
I see irony.... Who in their right mind thinks that Donald Trump would have ever won approval to put a Trump Casino in Greenville SC?

Weyland Billingsley
As someone who many might classify as conservative and evangelical, Bernie is looking better and better.

Sam Burnham
I'm still really thinking that Trump won't be horrible because he'll be opposed by both parties in Congress. The Democrats will hate him because he's a Republican and the Republicans will hate him because he's a...well...a Democrat.
So for four years nothing at all happens, the Republicans get their act together, produce a real Conservative candidate that beats a discredited Trump in the primary and the terrible status quo returns.

Terrell Shaw
To any Secret Service agents reading my Facebook page, I do not know Wayne Jones.

Joan Shaw Turrentine
I personally know NO ONE who supports Trump - and my friends are mostly evangelical. I doubt the veracity of the exit polls. Whether the untruths are from the voters or the reporters I don't know.

Kevin Payne
You're prob over thinking this. It's an angry electorate on both sides. Trump won virtually every possible group you can categorize. You need not look any further than the fact that he's not a Washington establishment candidate.

Joan Shaw Turrentine
But there are other non-politicians running.

Kevin Payne
They just aren't gaining as much traction.

Michelle Moriarty Smith
That is a good question. I consider myself an evangelical and I'm not voting for Trump. I do like that he wants to support vets, says he wants to make America great again, knows how to make money-so maybe he could help our country's financial situation and that he isn't dependent on anyone else for finances so maybe he'd actually do what he says, but there are so many more important issues to me than those things where I don't agree with him! Maybe those who are voting for him don't have those other issues on their minds. It is scary!

Jeff Akin
Don't look at me!!

David Matheny
This isn't the only time in the History of Man where Christians rely on the Power of State to Protect Them...but it comes with HUGE Trade-offs: https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../before-donald-trump

Terrell Shaw
I daren't speak ill of Charlemagne since he is, supposedly, one of my ancestors. Of course he had so many illegitimate children that most of humankind may be descended from him.

Sam Burnham
Do you mean "YUGE" trade-offs?

Wendy Davis
Best line from that article - think about this one..."A government that can shut down a mosque can shut down a church."

John McClellan
My dad, who was born and grew up in Alabama, used to tell me that you couldn't find anybody the day before the election who was going to vote for Big Jim Folsom or anybody the day after the election who had voted for him but he was elected governor of Alabama twice. Trump's winning primaries reminds me of that.

David Matheny
President Trump may break the World's Record for Impeachment Proceedings...

Susan Cherones
I know a couple of young people-early 20's-virgins huge family -all the girls with the long uncut hair and skirts to their tenny shoes-they posted a picture of themselvs dizzy with glee at a t.Rump rally-mystified!

Terrell Shaw
Oh. My.

David Matheny
T. Rump reminds me of a dimple-kneed 7 year old trying to run as President of a Backyard Tree House "No Girls Allowed" Club.

Wendy Davis
How about this survey...shake my head...

http://www.vox.com/.../24/11105552/trump-supporters-slavery

Katie Cauthen Francisco
My uncle is both evangelical and a Trump supporter. From what he's said, I'd go along with it being about the angry electorate. Beholden to no one, that sort of thing.

Ken Freshour
Wow. I finally agree with you about someone running for president. Will wonders never cease!

John Carlin
I don't think that everyone who votes for Trump supports him. It's more that they hate the other candidates. If forced to choose between Rubio, Trump or Cruz I'd choose Trump. I think he'd do a better job than the other two. At least some of what he says is true, I haven't heard Cruz say one thing I agree with.

Terrell Shaw
I understand that, John. Trump's extreme narcissism scares me. Cruz is so extreme he also scares me. Rubio is a crass politician who says things he does not believe (in my opinion) I suspect he would be less extreme as president than the cartoon he is portraying for the Tea Party folks who people the GOP primaries.
But I'll leave the Republican nomination to the Republicans.

Lydia Simpson
I also suspect there may be a larger-than-usual oppositional turnout - by that I mean people who turn out to vote in the opposition's primary to try to win the nomination for the least viable candidate. And I'm not just being cynical - I know a lot of folks who do this.

Katie Cauthen Francisco
Lydia Simpson possibly. I also know a few people who will more than likely vote for the Democratic candidate who have voted in the Republican primary for Rubio because they think he is the only possibility to defeat Trump and that scares them. Don't blame them one bit.

Laurie Craw
In the "There oughta be a law against it" category I would put publication of ALL polls. The candidates may want to know how every possible subdivision of the population voted or might vote, but they should keep the results to themselves. This kind of polling is one source of divisiveness our democracy we can do without. It also promotes unthinking voting by peer pressure, e.g "It says here evangelicals (Hispanics, women, cowboys, turnip pickers) voted for Trump. I'm an evangelical so I guess I should vote for Trump."

James Grant
Has anyone seen Trump in church? Is he a member of any organized religious group?

Sam Burnham
Yes, he said he really likes the "juice and the little cracker thingy". I'd say he's pretty devout.

David Matheny
He has past membership in the Marble Collegiate Church, a Presbyterian Church in NY made famous by Power of Positive Thinking minister Norman Vincent Peale.

Sam Burnham
I took this as an honest question and offered my honest answer.
Now I'd like to offer a question of my own. I ask honestly, not to provoke or incite an argument but as a real attempt to understand.
In the same spirit in which we are perplexed about evangelical support for Trump, I'm wondering how evangelical Christians find themselves supporting candidates that believe in abortion, gay marriage, and the removal of any hint of the overt religious undertones in our founding as a nation. Will you please explain?

Laurie Craw
The short answer is, there are many kinds of Christians just as there are many kinds of Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus etc. Wars have been fought, Christian against Christian, because of their differences. Hopefully, never here. I disagree that candidates or those who vote for them "believe in" abortion and gay marriage. I "believe in" the human rights of women to own and control their bodies and make their own moral and religious decisions regarding birth control, abortion and every other bodily function and their own medical care. I "believe" that no government has the right to tell people whom they can love, live with, have private sexual relations with, form a family with, share finances and contractual obligations with, and make an exclusive public commitment to, nor should it ever be able to tell any church, denomination or clergyperson that they cannot consecrate such commitments in their faith. Both of these cases involve government intrusion into personal lives of the worst kind. Where my religion comes in is how I live MY life and what choices I make, in freedom. I and I alone am responsible to God for my choices. Hope this helps your understanding.

Sam Burnham
I see what you are saying. The reason I ask this is to try to establish a set of reasoning. I think that an honest look at questions will help us understand the perspective of another even though we still disagree.
I think you could adjust a few words in your explanation and come up with an explanation for how someone who is a Christian could support Trump, even if we disagree with their reasoning.

Laurie Craw
Sam Burnham Probably so. Keeping in mind that none of us supports every statement or proposal a candidate makes. We have to prioritize issues that are most important to us and also which of their positions, statements or ethical lapses are "deal-breakers."

Sam Burnham
Yes, and that is why I choose to support candidates on a case-by-case basis and never just support a party. A deal breaker on a national platform is just something I can't get behind.

David Matheny
"Evangelical" means "News which is Good." I think if one claims to be a Christian, one is a Bearer of Good News. "Evangelical Christian,' as the Media defines it, means "Conservative Christian." Jimmy Carter was considered the first "Evangelical," and won the '76 Election with their help, but lost the "Evangelical" (media-term) over the issue of Abortion.

Michael J. Sarver
Terrell It's really quite simple...People who love Trump are as dumbfounded as you are.

Terrell Shaw
Assuming your comment is serious, do you mean that they are dumbfounded about their own support of Trump?

Michael J. Sarver
Terrell Shaw ... I'm just as serious as you are...of course I can't be certain, but I suspect they're dumbfounded by anyone supporting Hillary. And I'm anti-Hillary or Bernie or Obama or any other candidate who believes as they do. And no...I'm not a Trump supporter.

Terrell Shaw
Ok. I think I can understand my sister who supports Cruz, and my sister who supports Carson, and my friends who support Sanders, etc. I cannot understand support of Trump by intelligent folks.You understand that I believe in progressive politics and that that makes my support for Hillary Clinton logical from my point of view (even for those who think my point of view irrational). I understand that you believe in very conservative politics and might therefore support Cruz or Rubio or Carson or Kasich, Support for one of those candidates would be rational from a coherent (if mistaken ) political philosophy.

But Trump? What does Trump believe in? What are his qualifications? What are his accomplishments? I don't understand a rationale from any political viewpoint, except perhaps anarchy, to support Trump.

Michael J. Sarver
Terrell Shaw ...correct...anarchy. People supporting Trump are angry. And I agree you are irrational along with everyone you support. Actually I don't support any leading candidates. I liked Carly and I like Ben Carson.

Laurie Craw
Sometimes, when you're hungry for an apple and those suckers just won't drop, you shake the apple tree.

Beckie Gurley
The reason Trump keeps winning is there are too many republicans to choose from. The votes are getting spread out among the other candidates... The republicans need to get their act together and put one person up against Trump. We have way to many choices right now.

Paul Culotta
I agree with you Becky. The field is winnowing and essentially down to Trump, Rubio, and the Cruz. Enlisting Christie's endorsement helps Trump with some people, but I look on it as the #2 bully endorsing the #1 bully. Oh, and although he disavows it, Trump has been endorsed by David Duke.

Beckie Gurley
Paul Culotta I couldn't agree more. Christie is just a chunky Trump.

Laurie Craw
The media don't have a very good way to distinguish among Christians when it comes to political views, and I sympathize. I've never been comfortable with terms like "evangelical" or "born-again" or "mainline" or verbally segregating the "black church" from what? the "white church"? I'm pretty clear on "fundamentalist" and "literalist." And even though Catholic teaching is famously against abortion, birth control, divorce, and women priests, there are plenty of "good Catholics" who not only practice BC and get divorces and are proud feminists and vote for liberal politicians. If I were a reporter or editor covering politics and religion, I'd be searching for the right words and coming up short.

Gleaning Facebook: Blowhard Win

 I am embarrassed for my Republican friends. A narcissistic ignorant blowhard has won his second Republican primary going away. There is a real possibility that the party of gentlemen and scholars like Lincoln and TR and Ike and George Herbert Walker Bush will nominate for President of the United States someone who is utterly unqualified by experience, by temperament, by intellect, and by character.

I forgot to put up my predictions! Oh well. For what it is worth I expected it to be Trump, Cruz, Rubio, with a weak Bush, Kasich, and Carson bringing up the rear. It looks like Cruz and Rubio will be close.

Kasich would be their strongest general election candidate. He doesn't have a shot with the GOP base, however. Rubio is their next best shot. He may manage a nomination. His rhetoric is just as outlandishly right-wing as Cruz, but has a less abrasive personality.

Looking at the breadth of Trump's approximately one-third base, he may win each of the congressional districts in SC giving him all or almost all of the delegates. He actually could begin to run the tables. He wants to be our own little mini-terrorist, who speaks admirably of a policy of lining up 49 folks for execution with bullets soaked in pigs-blood and sending the 50th off with the story to our enemies.

Lots of comments:

David Matheny I bet the RNC will go into its Smoke-filled back rooms at a rare Brokered Convention like use to happen in the old days.

Sam Burnham While I agree with most of your assessment of Trump, I laughed out loud over your comment about him lacking the character to be president knowing that you support Hillary. LOL!

Terrell Shaw Hillary is a high-minded public servant whom I have admired and supported for 25 years. I have told you that before. Laugh all you want. None of the multitude of muddy charges slung at Hillary Clinton has been based on anything real. Other than a sordid sexual affair by Bill Clinton, my candidates have no embarrassing things like the iran-contra, wmd, waterboarding, watergate, etc. real honest-to-goodness scandals of the GOP. If any pf my friends want to throw Benghazi, e-mail, Whitewater, or other ridiculous charges at Hillary: do it elsewhere.

Sam Burnham She had plenty on her plate long before that. But I'll take it elsewhere.

Terrell Shaw Again, this has been argued several times. No one has presented any credible evidence of wrongdoing on Hillary's part. I won't argue it further. So argue the issues not the character of Hillary Clinton on this FB page.

Sam Burnham Well, you've taken the biggest issue with her off the table. If we're not allowed to point out that she's obviously unfit...

Terrell Shaw Good lord, Sam. Get over it. You disagree with her and therefore accept all these accusations despite absolutely no evidence to support them. It is embarrassing that I have friends still trying to blame her for her friend's death in Lybia. Shameful. That's it. G'nite.

John Lee Terrell Shaw forget about all of these Hillary Haters who are in denial that she is THE single most qualified candidate in this race who will most likely win POTUS. They are the same people who always complain about Obama even though he has been a GREAT president. Most hard core right wing conservative Republicans are delusional in thinking that Trump could possibly do a good job as Commander in Chief! I personally believe the Republican Party is a dying breed. Hillary will completely dessimate Trump in the General Election. Her qualifications alone "Trump" any opponent. People who don't like it should go post on Trump sites or Hillary Hate sites and not your wall. I fully support your views Terrell and excited to vote for HRC for POTUS!! #GoHillary #MadamePresident 

Terrell Shaw John, like you I am a progressive who lives in a "red" state. I have spent decades in the minority. I have relatives and friends whom I love and admire who are rabidly conservative, libertarian, tea-party, etc. I welcome their brief comments on the issues. In this case, it has become a useless discussion regarding Sec. Clinton. I do not care to argue further about her character. I know her to be honorable. Several of my valued friends are angrily convinced otherwise. We have covered that territory. They are not open to my arguments and I am tired of hearing their insults of her. So I will simply delete any insults to Sec. Clinton that are put on my wall. I'll still love and admire my friends but I do not wish to get into any more "is" "is not" fights. Serves no purpose except to raise everyone's blood pressure.

John Lee Terrell Shaw I couldn't agree more. I have followed her for years and am a true supporter. I firmly believe Republicans have an agenda to try and take her out and it just isn't working. Emails, Bengazi, Lewinski, etc....she has not been indicted or proven guilty of any intentional criminal acitivity. As far as her Husband (Who was a great POTUS as well)--she can't be held accountable for his actions. They are both human and their marriage is between them and no one else and has ZERO influence on her being a qualified candidate and leader. I pray she wins...because if not we could be in serious trouble.

Terrell Shaw It is interesting to me that some of my conservative friends have not had problems with many divorced candidates, some married to their former adulterous mistresses (Gingrich, McCain, Trump) while condemning the couple (Clintons) who managed to keep their marriage together despite their serious problems.

John Lee Exactly! Amen!!

Sam Burnham I don't support Trump. Nor did I vote for Gingrich. I didn't really support McCain either. I don't begrudge people mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. My issue with Slick Willie was never his affairs. It's the cover up that gets folks in trouble.

Terrell Shaw I realize you are a special case, Sam. 

You definitely march to your own drummer. I would not be surprised to learn that you have spent a vote or two on third party candidates in presidential years.

Gleaning Facebook: Birthday Roses for Mother

My mother with the beautiful birthday roses from my niece Charmaine.

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Mary Nisbet Asbury
Happy birthday to your beautiful mother!

David Matheny
HBDTRUTH!!

Deborah Lake Dawson
Very nice!

Amanda Hearn Sims
Beautiful!

Ralph Davis
Beautiful!!!

Janie Hamrick Jacobs
Happy birthday to your mother

Hilda Atkins Moore
How gorgeous and I know they shall extremely brighten your birthday..Wishing you a great day and many more.

Lori Loyd Russell
Happy Birthday Aunt Ruth!

Wendell W Barnes Jr
Happy Birthday Dr. Ruth!

Dawn Hoke Kidney
Oh my HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY RUTH!!!
Love, Dawn and Hoke

CeCe Baker
Such a great picture!

Susan S. Carter
Beautiful Aunt Ruth and roses
Love Y'all

Juanita Mull
Beautiful roses for a lovely lady.

Christie Hufstedler Boyd
Happy Birthday!

Ken Freshour
Happy Birthday to my favorite Seminary classmate. What an inspiration!

Diane Loyd Gage
Happy Birthday, Aunt Ruth! Sending love your way!

Leatrice Michelle Carter
oh how beautiful! Happy Birthday! God bless you!

Virginia Cooler
Happy Birthday Ms. Ruth!!!!! God bless you!!!!!!!

Jenny Hall
Beautiful face!!

Susan Baird Spiva Reborns
Those are beatiful. Aunt Ruth Baird Shaw

Alice Jeffries Keel
Both real beauties!

Alice Rogers
You look beautiful, Ruth!!

Sandy Doughty
Beautiful, sweet Lady!!

Barbara Farmer Hunt
Wow! Beautiful roses. Happy Birthday.

Ken Fuller
Happy Birthday, Mrs. Ruth. I hope you had a great day with your family.

Sharlette Denise Holcomb
Happy Birthday to your mom! Your mom and my father-in-law have the same birthday!

Evelyn Nichols
Happy Birthday. Reminds me of my days at Trinity United Methodist Church.

Charmaine Yoest
Oh thanks for this wonderful picture Terry. How I wish we were there!!

Elsa Jensen Davis
Beautiful

Steven Savage
Happy birthday....aunt Ruth