And none of these carefully considered changes infringes on any law-abiding citizen's rights. Each of these actions is strongly supported by a big majority of the American people. Shame on the GOP candidates for their silly accusations to the contrary, aimed only at the small core of right wing primary voters. We will remember how you reacted today (or "pre-acted" in several instances) come November when one of you will face all the voters.
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I can ALWAYS count on comments on posts like this.
Comments
Judy Manning
I can certainly agree with increasing mental health treatment & reporting but closing down our mental health institutes is not going to help with that issue.
Terrell Shaw
You'll havta 'splain, Judy.
Judy Manning
Terrell, unless I am mistaken, they closed down a rather large one here in Rome not too long ago. The majority of these shooters are mentally unstable and most are taking prescription drugs. There are families who have a family member that they realize is unstable but they have no where to turn to get help for them. There are people who have friends that they realize are unstable but don't want to step up and say, "this person needs help" and would have no way of getting that help for them. The cost of mental health treatment is prohibitive even if they find it.
Terrell Shaw
Yes, we are on the same side there Judy! The cuts to social services, public education, parks, etc under Republican control of Georgia during the last decade and a half have been catastropic in some cases. This is aggravated by the federal political gridlock.
Judy Manning
We are probably on the same side on a lot of issues Terrell. I am neither Democrat or Republican, I do not discriminate, I dislike and distrust most politicians (most, not all). I try to form my opinions on all the information I am given and not just on the one sided garbage spewed by the media.
John Carlin
Yes, cracking down on the questionable sellers, making background checks cheaper, requiring sellers to report missing shipments of guns, enforcing laws we already have, it makes you wonder what took so long.
Sam Burnham
The primary evidence that his fiat is a blatant violation of the Second Amendment is the fact that not one of the cases he got up and cited through fake tears would have been slightly changed by his edict. He continues to ignore the real causes because they neither interest him nor help further his war on American Liberty & Culture.
Terrell Shaw
Oh Sam, listen to him again. He directly addressed your objections. These changes will not stop all or even most... But they will save lives.
I love the 'fake tears' charge. The right has amazing mind-reading abilities. They almost match your opinion of the president's acting skills.
Russell Jones
They will not save any lives, not one...
Terrell Shaw
Russell every bit of data that I know of says you are wrong on this. There is no sure cure, but there are sure improvements.
I'm glad you and I have other areas of agreement.
Russell Jones
The reason I say not one life will be saved by the EA is it is nothing new...more talk and no real action...The federal government does nothing well except maybe create a larger more expensive mess of any problem it try to fix...
Terrell Shaw
Come on, Russell. There is not a part of our government that could not work better, but:
The federal socialist "GI Bill" helped my dad become the first person in his family to graduate from college and changed the life course of me and my siblings forever.
I owe my ability to have a comfortable retirement to Social Security. A big part of my health care is under Medicare.
I got my education 1-12 from public schools. So did my wife and children.
I received my teacher training and masters degree from a wonderful federal program called the National Teacher Corps.
I travel federal, state , and local roads and bridges daily.
Terrorists have been trying to kill me and other Americans for years, yet our military, police, FBI, CIA, homeland security folks have thus far stopped the vast majority of threats.
Federal programs have helped our beautiful town to have an outstanding Riverwalk system I use almost every day.
Our postal system manages, despite obstacles from the right, to dependably deliver my mail right to my door.
I have not had any tainted meat or veggie problems thanks in part to the federal regulations and inspections.
Yes, we need to be ever vigilant to keep America's government in the hands of We the People, but we still have the vote, and I'll take our democratic republic over any alternative any day.
Russell Jones
Those are all great for your generation...the next ten generations will be stalled with the $19 trillion dollar debt...thats more the more expensive mess I referred to...the small goods lead to tremendous damage for generations
Terrell Shaw
Most of the debt is due to two wars fought on credit by Bush and friends, the tax cuts for the wealthy under Reagan and Bush, and the Bush recession.
We need to return to a more progressive tax system like my Dad's generation and we Baby-boomers flourished under. To have the infrastructure Americans want and to avoid such income disparity that unrest is fomented we need greater revenues. The fairest way to accomplish that is a highly progressive tax so that we each pay very low tax on our first few thousand dollars of income but greater percentages on each additional amount of income we can garner during the year.
Russell Jones
It simply untrue that most of the debt is not from Bush or Reagan...It's lie told enough even you believe it...The fact remain not one Democrat on the planet has offered a plan to pay off the debt and no republican has either...no other issue matters until that is addressed...we cannot borrow money we don't have to simply handout to people around the globe..that is the main reason we have no mental health care, no middle class, no industry, and no positive future..The other BS about one party being worse than the other is wrong. Democrats are equally as disgraceful as republicans in their desire for power over doing what is right...
Terrell Shaw
It is sad to me, forgive me for saying it, to see someone from your generation, rejecting the great strides of America under progressive democracy during the twentieth century. It is my opinion that the two Roosevelts (the closest thing to socialist presidents in our history IMO) saved capitalism from the extremes that caused violent revolution in other parts of the world.
Unbridled capitalism is an active evil. This I say as a person who loves free enterprise and has been an entrepreneur twice in my life. Without some method of restraining the excesses of greed under unregulated capitalism, it becomes tyranny just as surely as communism on the other end of the spectrum. The answer is a strong capitalist economy with a highly progressive tax system and safety/civil-rights/environmental/economic regulation and a strong infrastructure that can "lift all boats."
Sam Burnham
I can't stand to listen to it again. He's pledging to give up Liberty in the name of safety and we'll wind up losing both.
Terrell Shaw
I love ya, Sam, but your beliefs in this regard just astound me. Do you agree that your interp of 2nd Am is to the right of even Scalia?
Not to mention Bush, Reagan, Nixon, & Ike?
Sam Burnham
My interp of Amendment II is in line with Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, and even Adams & that ol' devil Hamilton. It's with the bi-philosophy view of the Founding Fathers. Their views aren't always popular these days but they are the views our Republic was founded on.
Joel Todino
I doubt that you guys will ever agree, or convince the other!
David Thomas
Please stand in front of the parents of children killed by gun violence and explain to them how they should be interested in your views of the origins of the Constitution.
Sam Burnham
An appeal to emotion. A mainstay in modern discourse.
David Thomas
Tell that to them.
Sam Burnham
And it continues...
David Thomas
Tell them that, too.
Sam Burnham
Or...we could actually address the real problems instead of just force feeding a progressive agenda that doesn't fix anything.
David Thomas
All ears. Fix the real problems and we will agree.
David Thomas
crickets
Sam Burnham
We can start by dealing with violent criminals. We can continue by dealing with a broken society that opposes every cultural mainstay of pre-1960s Western Civilization. We can deal with mental illness in more constructive ways. We can hold people, instead of inanimate objects, responsible for their actions.
We can reestablish a social structure that encourages men to be dads and not just genetic donors.
Sam Burnham
Can you hear the crickets over the ideas that work?
David Thomas
Yeah, that ought to shut up those parents, all right. When they think about going back to the cultural mainstays of pre-1960s Western Civilization. Yeah, I can see how that is a solution that works. Let's get behind reestablishing the social structure. Sort of like pre-Civil Rights, you mean. I get it now.
Sam Burnham
That's about the level of ignorance I've come to expect. When I run out of (or lack from the onset) a rebuttal, I'll just call the conservative a racist. That'll shut him up.
No need discussing anything further with you. Have fun.
David Thomas
I'll come visit you on your plantation
Steve Goble
Every person who wants to buy a gun should pass a background check. Whether at Walmart or a gun show. And this is from a staunch second freedom supporter.
Sam Burnham
How many guns did Obama cite that weren't approved for purchase by a background check?
David Thomas
What do you tell the parents of the victims besides NRA boilerplate? That was my question to you, Sam. How is your answer about pre-Civil Rights America in any way responsive?
Sam Burnham
David, I'm not a member of the NRA. I'm not a supporter of the NRA. You have already exhausted the possibility of meaningful discussion when you called me a racist. I have tried to disengage from you as politely as I can.
But I will add this: how can you look at one of these parents and blame an inanimate object? Why can't we realize that our problem is that there is a percentage of this population (not contained to any one race) that doesn't value human life? Why can't we accept that when the counterculture stripped America of its morality and social responsibility, that this was an unintended consequence? Why can't we see that every killer has a first time in which they will pass a background check but a human that is raised with a moral compass and a value for human life is SUBSTANTIALLY less likely to kill someone?
Sam Burnham
Or you could just call me a racist again.
Terrell Shaw
Sam, I am gonna put my oar in one time only, here. No one blames an inanimate object. No one. But many of us do realize that whatever the failures of our society, and they are myriad, to save our kids from emotional, mental, and substance abuse problems, there ARE ways compliant with our hunting and self-protection rights, to lessen the chances that real people who would use those inanimate objects to harm themselves or others will do so. No one that I know of, certainly no one in a position of power, advocates confiscation of law-abiding citizens' hunting or self-protection weapons.
I will not be quiet on this issue ever again until some significant changes are made. I love and admire my friends who disagree, but I disagree and this is an important issue to me. I believe the vast majority of Americans are on the side of strong background checks, less fire power in civilian guns, smaller magazines, better health care for the mentally/emotionally unstable, better safety training for young people and others who want to use firearms, etc. None of these will stop all suicides, murders, or terrorist attacks, but they will lessen them.
Y'all have a great evening.
David Thomas
Okay, let's review. The top of this post from Terrell Shaw is the graphic from Occupy Democrats that summarizes Obama's executive action yesterday enumerating four steps: universal background checks, increasing mental health resources re: background checks, fighting illegal gun trafficking, and funding gun safety research. Agree so far I presume. Small steps, all within his power, but in themselves not a solution. However they will help save lives for now and serve as a basis for future policies. All of them widely favored by the public, by the Republican Party, and practically everyone but the NRA and those they sponsor and fund i Congress. Again, agree so far? Obama's impassioned speech was made in the presence of Sandy Hood parents. Another agreement? Your first post above launches your mansplanation of the Second Amendment and your mocking and insulting Obama. True? Others in this thread besides me pushed back on your interpretation of the Constitution to which you doubled down your philosophy. At this point I raised the question about how you address the Sandy Hook parents. Am I still on track in this thread? Now you give your "solutions" including a return to pre-1960s cultural mainstays. That was pre-Civil Rights. If that was a racist culture, then that is what you are suggesting as an answer to the parents' grief and the President's executive action. I'lll go back to the original post. Obama's executive action was justified because it will save lives. This will obviously become an issue in the campaign. In the primaries, it will help the extremist GOP candidates, but in the general it will help bring about a Democratic landslide. I favor the Democrats, and I oppose the NRA, and we both love the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. But we do differ on what they mean when an absolutist misreading of the militia by the Court is used to bully real victims for being "emotional" about their dead children.
Sam Burnham
You did better that time. At least you didn't sound like Salon's Internet meme generator.
The point about pre-1960s I'm trying to make is from an era in which family mattered, community mattered, there was such a thing as right and wrong, there was respect and honor in our society. It wasn't perfect, in fact, it had some really big flaws.
The idea of civil rights is to bring people of all races into equal opportunity within a society that was working for most of the population. Our education system performed better, our crime rates were better - especially gun violence as Terrell has cited previously. The problem was not the society, the problem was inclusion in that society. Fixing the inclusion problem would be progress. Destroying the society was not.
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Regulations have not stopped ALL refrigerator deaths, I suspect. But it has been a long time since I heard one of those sad tales. There will still be deaths caused by idiots, thugs, crazies, and/or distraught folk with guns after today, but there will also be lives saved. How many? I don't know. If there is one It is worth it.
Christy Davis
Refrigerators don't kill people. People kill people. And even with new regulations, bad people will still get refrigerators. I'm sick and tired of people infringing on my God-given Forty-Seventh Amendment right to own refrigerators. You can have my refrigerator when you prize it from my cold, dead, hand. Socialism is going to kill this country.
Erskine Thompson
Mmmkay, but if someone breaks into my house, or tries to mug me, my refrigerator will not provide much in the way of defense, either.
Beth Novian Hughes
I don't think anyone is trying to change that, I'm sure you would pass a background check. And lets face it who wouldn't love a gun that will only fire if your fingerprint allows it to (proposed by Obama)? It makes it worthless to a criminal and safe for a child. Gun safety is the bomb!
Justin D Price
This has to be the weakest argument I've seen put forth yet...
Beth Novian Hughes
If you don't want to submit to a background check, you probably shouldn't have a gun.
George Barton
Which amendment gives you the right to own refrigerators?
Christy Davis
Duh. Forty-seventh Amendment.
Terrell Shaw
Steve Goble
But there was this one time when I was a kid, a buddy of mine and I spent all weekend digging worms and filling a chest freezer full of dirt, leaves, cow patties, and thousands of innocent worms. A storm came and blew the plywood lid off and rained it full. Thousands of earthworms were killed in the making of that worm bed. Two more broken hearted ten year olds there have never been.
Steve Goble
#nightcrawlerlivesmatter
Don Rusk
I amnot for totally banning guns and I don't own a gun and am 63 years old. If someone breaksinto my house with a gun I guess the good Lord feels its my time to go. I am though, sick of the NRA feeling they have 100% of the rights of Americans. Your rights end where my rights begin. When the NRA refuses to respect laws that would require gun owners to have to lock their guns so kids can't find guns and kill each other, my right to my thoughts and concern about children's lives is taken away. Also the refusal to allow more stringent background checks to stop the mentally unstable people from getting guns is asenine to think that if you have to register your guns the government will come and take it away.
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